Author Topic: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.  (Read 42220 times)

nuduke

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2015, 06:39:58 PM »
We had a bit of hot weather this Saturday and we took the opportunity to sit out in the garden.  I spontaneously stripped to my underpants and went pottering about doing garden jobs with no objection from the wife who was reading on a sunbed (fully clothed!).  Then I lay down on the grass for a rest, prone and took off my pants revealing the manly buttock.  She immediately got up in a huff and went in saying 'if you are going to do that I'm not staying out here'.  I was pretty miffed, that was moral blackmail (and indeed cutting off the proverbial nose to spite the proverbial visage!) although I realised I'd probably surprised her with my sudden complete nudity.  I went in and argued her back outside.  We made an agreement that I would be naked when she was inside and would put my shorts back on when she emerged, provided she didn't get all huffy if she happened to see me naked in the transition.

Shortly later she went into the kitchen to do a few things and so I stripped and sunbathed.  This was lovely by the way - our new garden has soft turf and because there is no danger of being seen, one can relax.  When she came out again (with nice cup of tea!), I put my shorts on in an unhurried way and she stuck to her side of the bargain, no huffing. 

After a few rounds of this including me going inside and demonstratively removing my shorts just before I left the garden and putting them on again when I came out, we had settled down into this more matter of fact modus operandi.

What difference a pair of underpants makes defies explanation but (present SN female company excepted) this seems to be the feminine mind at work.

John

jbeegoode

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2015, 08:09:24 PM »

What difference a pair of underpants makes defies explanation but (present SN female company excepted) this seems to be the feminine mind at work.

John
A pair of undrpants, sure makes a big difference to my comfort and it is such a small thing.

I'm thinking that this isn't fem-mind, but a skirmish, in a battle of two opposing social practical sensibilities, control and boundaries. She still doesn't like your activity, but is jostling what she will accept.

I'm still thinking that the tub is the key. You add candles, moonlight, dancing out of the tub, and some frisky stuff, then she gets more used to it, seeing it, associates good things with it "together." You get out of the tub and take a break sitting around, maybe next to her, get back in. You could run the garden sprinkler for a while, as you both relax in the tub, she sees you wandering practical in the yard to do the water. She gets used to it, boundaries drop, incrementally.

In the mean time, you can now enjoy your backyard. You are being confident and free.

Do you think that she sees the naked as exposure, naughty, or being nasty instead of the nude? Is it immature, childish to her? What are her negative connotations? Is it self-identity, like, "I'm not one of THOSE!" What are THOSE? Is it the future, is she afraid of where it is heading and trying to whaoh the horses?Where would she fear that it is heading?
Jbee


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Nightwalker

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2015, 04:33:55 AM »
I guess I've been lucky. My wife was aware that I was a nudist right from the start, thanks to our first romantic getaway when we were 20-somethings, and a severe sunburn I'd got the day before.

In our marriage she was more conservative, so I restrained my nudist activities to indoors, and only when we were alone together. She did eventually accompany me back to the beach, but it was never really "her thing". Like a great many people, I think she saw a nudism as the domain of hedonism.

Oddly enough, it was television that began to change things for us. First, it was the British "Diary of a Teenage Nudist", which sounds hedonistic as hell, but which is actually a serious documentary on nudism in all its various forms in different countries. Then there was the Canadian television series "The Skinny Dip", in which a winsome young hostess travels to various countries around the world in search of people willing to accompany her to the perfect nudist swimming hole. Then there was the American real estate program, "Buying Naked", in which a naturist real estate agent finds homes in a naturist subdivision for naturist couples in Florida. (No, seriously.)

I eventually convinced her to try out an actual Canadian nudist campground/resort. This turned out to be such a lovely (and relatively tame) adventure with such wonderful people from Canada, Britain, the U.S. and Germany, that she instantly wanted to go back. Now she joins me often, nude in our secluded backyard in the city, no longer ashamed of her own body (or mine).

This might be an answer: confront your partner's fears head-on, and let them know that, no, nudism is not the domain of the hedonistic! Too often, I think, this misconception is what is holding them back.
I feel my best when naked in the world, especially in wide, open spaces, wherever and whenever possible.

nudewalker

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2015, 05:49:12 PM »
What difference a pair of underpants makes defies explanation but (present SN female company excepted) this seems to be the feminine mind at work.

John

And tomorrow that may change! There are still days where the misses gives me that "look" or comments on my lack of attire. I write it off to her sixth sense or intuition as it is usually one of those "what if someone stops by" or "I'm sure people can see you". Sometime to calm her fears I demonstrate what can be seen (that's where the laser pointed idea came from) or wear the running kilt for awhile. To me open dialogue is the key and talking about a hot tub may help.
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

nuduke

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2015, 01:14:44 AM »
Quote from: jbee
I'm thinking that this isn't fem-mind, but a skirmish, in a battle of two opposing social practical sensibilities, control and boundaries. She still doesn't like your activity, but is jostling what she will accept.
You are very wise.  Her attitude to nudity is complex and coloured by past familial conditioning and an odd but not very positive encounter with naturists in adolescence.  And yes, I think she is torn between accepting that my naturism is benign and being generous and accepting me versus old memories and fear of having to deal with the social consequences of it being known by others.

Quote
I'm still thinking that the tub is the key.

Well, I hope so.  Plans are proceeding but we still need clear costings to see if we can afford the installation as well as the spa itself and are talking to builders and electricians (the damn things need a seperate extra power supply!).  She has somewhat signalled that if we have a private spa it does seem even to her rather unnecessary to be clothed at home when using it and she has been very clear that she will permit me to be naked when I/we use it.  I am hopeful therefore that if it becomes a reality, that a barrier will be crossed into a more permissive era that allows other boundaries to be pushed further away.

John

jbeegoode

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2015, 07:24:07 AM »
Quote
I'm still thinking that the tub is the key.

Well, I hope so.  Plans are proceeding but we still need clear costings to see if we can afford the installation as well as the spa itself and are talking to builders and electricians (the damn things need a seperate extra power supply!).  I am hopeful therefore that if it becomes a reality, that a barrier will be crossed into a more permissive era that allows other boundaries to be pushed further away.

John

The boundaries will change dramatically with use and sharing. You get in, get hot, sit or stand out to cool, get back in, relaxing intoxication will bust barriers, on and on.

Its own power supply!!! A spa runs on a 1 1/2 to 2 horsepower motor (not British horses, I suppose). I had a separate box for safety concerns, but just a switch box on mine. To give you an idea, I run a 2 1/2 horse pump from my water tank into my house. It is plugged into a 110 outlet, not 220 (like a clothes dryer), but a 110, wall socket. At most, it only requires an extra breaker, depending how the house is wired. You have different electricity, but that is the basics. Spas come as fiberglass units these days and hook up simply. Everything inclusive and efficient.

I had a gas heater usually used for a 30x40 swimming pool and extra pump on my first. It heated up in minutes from cold, but was not energy efficient. I went to the factory, bought a second that had a small bump on the wall for less than half price. The bump disappeared under the water and lasted over 20 years. Got the fixtures wholesale, a friend helped me plumb it. I sat it on the ground (7ft diameter, 620 gallons). When I moved, a group of friends, a pickup truck and several six-packs got it across town. I dug a hole this time, so it was half way buried, then placed volcanic rock around the ledge at my leisure, raw brick around that, some lattice work. Later, I knocked out a wall, made an addition around it off of the bedroom with french doors. Later still, a framer enclosed it like a green house. Air bubble jets all around and water jets powerful enough to rotisserie on a rubber raft in the sun. They are great to lay in, on a raft, gathering sun in temperature controlled water on a hot day. I suggest putting it in a sunny afternoon spot.


There is other fun. It is fun to sit in the drizzling rain in a hot tub. An enclosed gazebo can be picked up for $100 to $150 and assembled by any intelligent pair of hands and top and/or walls removed at anytime, so there is choice for indoor and outdoor during season changes. When the air freezes, a body steams naked, as if it is smoking on fire and is able to withstand those cold temps in comfort (getting out there from the house is something else, however). There can be Jacuzzi spa to snow wallowing and back, like a good sauna and cold plunge. All of these features are fun sensual naked activities that break down the concept of changing back and forth in and out of clothing and get people out of the tub and into the yard and associated space. Get the drift? She will catch on, piece by piece alone with you. I kept a hose nearby. This practically keeps people from tracking dirt, or lawn clippings into the pool filter, but it quickly becomes a shower, something to cool off with and get back in, a solar heated shower in the sun, or a spray toy, or fake rain fall. They are great conversation pits, when the temp is adjusted just so. In short a place for extended naked time and good nude habits to form. 

If I keep this up, I'll talk myself into another one! Well, a spiritual wood fired sweat house may have to come before that. The verdict on our sweat in the city will probably be decided within the month. 
Jbee
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eyesup

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2015, 08:18:55 PM »
Quote
What difference a pair of underpants makes defies explanation but (present SN female company excepted) this seems to be the feminine mind at work.

This also appears in municipal codes. No nudity but if you wear a swimsuit that is little more than, what I saw referred to on another site as "bits of cloth", you are left alone. I hesitate to call them suits. The total area of cloth is less than a handkerchief. It boggles the mind.

. . . . . please be patient while mind is boggling . . . .

I frequently stop trying to figure people out.

Duane

nuduke

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2015, 07:27:08 PM »
Couple of things,

My wife has lately taken to increased number of baths rather than showers and 2 or 3 times she has perambulated naked from our bedroom to the bathroom with the bath which is down the landing.  This afternoon she stopped to chat at my office (next door to bathroom) albeit holding a towel in front but in a relaxes way and leaving 60% uncovered.  This is generally not her style and so I'm wondering if she's relaxing a bit.  I am certainly spending increasing amounts of time naked around the house (unchallenged) when she is there; although these times tend to be before dressing in the morning and after undressing at night, but not exclusively.  If I'm changing into or out of overalls during the day I can usually get away with a bit of nudity betwixt and between.

Second - we have decided against the spa.  Apart from the cost which was escalating all the time, in the end after considerable discussion we decided that 100gall of warmish water was just too much of a drag.  The amount of work you need to do to keep the water clean and clear and the number of things that go wrong with it, we very rationally concluded that the ration of  pleasure + convenience to cost + inconvenience was in fact a negative one.  So we've ditched that in favour of another project (new kitchen and extended living area).  I actually don't feel bad about it.  The unparalleled potential opportunity for being nude and getting excercise conveniently is, I have to say, disappointing to lose but oddly, after we made the decision (having got mountains of info and practical experience of the things) we both felt a lot better!

So, Sleaford Naturist Swim is my next destination! About 30-40' drive away. It seems to be an active group swimming every 2 weeks on Saturday nights.  Now then...think, think, think up excuse to get to it? 

John
 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 08:10:42 PM by nuduke »

nuduke

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2015, 08:10:08 PM »
Oh yes..., forgot the swimspa anecdote:
One of the test runs we went on to try out swimspas was in a firms premises where the unit was in a wooden building with quite large windows both ends.  Unfortunately one end looked directly on to a large roundabout (traffic circle in US) road junction.   Consequently any car passing could theoretically see in to the building (if they went about 10mph scanning with a pair of opera glasses!).  In fact the chances of being seen were remote unless you 'flashed' at the glass doors.  Changing facilities inside were pretty non existent (just chairs).  This threw my wife into an agony of nervousness that the entire motoring population of Lincolnshire were going to get a 'butchers*' of her naked form.  I pooh poohed and told her not to be so silly and be unashamed for once of her beautiful curves... but agreed to stand in front of the glass door holding my coat open during her most vulnerable moments, which seemed to help. (That said, she did not resort to an 'under towel' change.  Maybe she was less nervous than she made out!).  Her tension was palpable until she was in a costume and in the water. Then I changed and had a swim too. The salesman had retired to let us get on with it in private.

When Mrs N had finished she got out to dry and dress and I continued testing the spa (even despite our later decision, they were fun to use!).  Noticing that she was a bit preoccupied with restitution of her womanly attire, coiffeur etc.  I whipped off my trunks and had a bit of a nude swim.  She didn't notice for ages and it was not until I stood up to get out and was demonstratively wringing my trunks before actually getting out that she noticed and gave me 'what for' ("Behave yourself - the salesman could return at any minute!!").  I was determined to point out the uselessness of her anti-nude 'anxiety' so dried myself 'untidily' - rubbed my genitalia vigorously (which oddly didn't cause any comment!) and at one point went up to the (very steamy) windows and said 'Gosh it must be rush hour!' and dropped my towel and apparently 'flashed' the traffic which really got her fuming! (Be assured that I had checked in advance that this was not something that could pass as my first public exposure and indeed I turned away from the window so that if anyone was flying an HDTV drone or looking through a huge telescope, the view would be of my buttocks only, not the marriage furniture?!)  I got 'decent**' quickly and calmed her offended sensibilities making sure to challenge those by getting her to admit that actually nothing bad had happened due to my actually being vigilant to ensure my speedos could go on in an instant and that the steamy windows ensured that nobody could really see anything (I checked from the outside and this was far from true!!! :D ).  I also took her round the roundabout on the way out to prove you couldn't see in.  She claimed you could see in but admitted it was far enough away that one wouldn't be recognisable.

I don't think that excursion had a significant impact on my spouse progress quotient and, unusually for me, I had a bit of impish fun at her expense.  However, the more she gets to share these moments, the more it will sink in that there's nothing to be embarrased about and that my naturism will not evaporate!

John

*butchers = butcher's hook = look (cockney rhyming slang)
**I am aware that this means the opposite to the more correct naturist term; decent to a nudist meaning 'without attire'.  However for narrative verisimilitude I decided thus to construct the syntax.
:)
J

jbeegoode

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2015, 06:53:23 PM »
Maintaining my spa was never any trouble. I could measure the balance by the color/clarity of the water, I knew when I used it that it would eat at the salts. I placed a small cup of chlorine in and ran it every so often. I filled it with a hose, sometimes not until use. It wasn't on a timer, I just cranked up the heater and pump before use and gave it about 45 minutes. No big deal at all, nothing remotely like maintaining the swimming a pool.

I have a friend who has his hot all of the time. Lots of problems and maintenance.

When I didn't use it as much, it did get mucked up. I'd drain it, and add fresh water. 625 gallons is not much. There was no cover on it.
Jbee
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milfmog

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2015, 03:06:45 PM »
One of my friends has a wood fired hot tub which neatly sidesteps most of the maintenance issues as it can simply be emptied and refilled as required. It is big enough to seat 6 close friends of four with a little more elbow room and takes a couple of hours to fill using the garden hose.

The only downside of this is that it has to be heated from cold when required, which takes about 3 hours of feeding the stove with broken old pallets and similar until it is up to temperature, at which point slower burning logs are better. This means that using the tub has to be planned in advance and cannot be completely spontaneous. However, it is a good solution if you have an adequate supply of old pallets / garden sheds etc and is far cheaper to run than keeping an electrically heated tub up to temperature all the time, in case it is wanted.

Have fun,


Ian.

PS Neither of the couple would self-describe as naturist, however, they generally use the tub properly attired and have planted a screen to minimise the chance of being observed. Although Carole and I have joined them in the tub a couple of times, cozzies were the order of the day :(
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

JOhnGw

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2015, 05:52:46 PM »
It does seem to be relatively common for non-naturists to use their own hot tub naked.
JOhn

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
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jbeegoode

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2015, 07:53:58 PM »
I must not misspeak and mislead. My heater was natural gas and designed to heat a 30x40 ft. swimming pool. With a two horsepower pump the water heated very quickly. It could be freezing and the tub would be warm in a relatively shirt time, then we would stand outside laughing as the smoke-like steam came from our bodies. The pump created a mild vortex in the round tub, which would rotisserie my water raft as I sunbathed without the heater on. It didn't need to run much, the salts, chlorine would distribute pretty quickly when I occasionally over did it, the heater would correct the problem if need be. Maintenance wasn't an issue.
Jbee
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nudewalker

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2015, 03:58:35 PM »
Although it is not a search done in a "has to be done " mode we have been looking at houses that could fit our needs in the future. One we looked at the other day consisted of an acre and a half with much of the back yard surrounded by a six foot fence. In other words paradise to me however it had an in ground pool and the wife has her reservations about upkeep. As we toured the house and grounds all I could think of is lounging on a float, naked in the sun! Anyway, since we do travel I guess a pool would be a waste at this time. But I did put a large fenced in area onto the list of must haves!
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

Kayaker

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Re: Problems and progress with reluctant and difficult partners.
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2016, 04:38:19 AM »
It's good to hear of definite progress, John.

Endeavor to persevere.

Duane


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