Medical evidence or (Who didn't know this?)

[nuduke]

I hadn't thought of the cotton fields for food and go naked point.  Somebody brief Trump and Clinton!

I agree with all your points.  That takes the thought onwards and prompts me to add to my previous post in that, whilst science has enabled us to feed many more people, those in the richer parts of the world have simply sequestrated this capacity for their preferences, not necessarily for the greater good(e).  I do so agree that we have increasingly indulged our predilection for inefficient meat consumption and less for efficient beans and greens. 

I think our western greed is less applicable in the East (of the earth not the USA!) where the new genetic strains of rice have fed the population with basic carbohydrate staple and avoided starvation.  However, there is ever news of the Chinese adopting western tastes and habits such as the proliferation of MacDonalds in China and a taste for beef emerging.  Would that it were the other way round and their healthier diet we were adopting and turning some of the pampas to rice fields not grazing ground!

I might remark that reducing meat consumption would apply equally to sheep and pigs.  Thus woollen clothing and shoes could also become a thing of the past!  Hurrah for vegetarianism! (This hypocrisy from someone who has just eaten an Indian meal containing lamb, cream, and chicken but also rice, cauliflower, wheat(naan bread), mangos (chutney) and almonds.

Speaking of food efficiency, Jbee, where do you stand on mealworms?

John

[jbeegoode]

Where ever they may be getting at grain. I would suppose that they are very crunchy no matter where you put your foot down.
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

All life feeds on life.  For each to live something must die.  That is the fundamental fact of life. 

[reubenT]

What I see in farming around me,  (all over the eastern part of the USA actually)   Is a whole lot of lazy farming going on.   Oh there are some ambitious farmers,  but most are pretty lazy.   Raising beef cows on land that would support nice vegetable crops is one big point of lazyness.  It's the easy thing to do.  But also the most inefficient food source there is, and definitely less than the healthiest.   A few hundred lb of beef versus 20-40,000 lb of good produce from a good acre.   It takes a lot more thought, planning, education, input, and interest,  to make the land produce vegetable food products.  But the reward in profit is there if it's done right. 

   At one time apples were considered essential,  6 trees per person was the average needed.  Which included fresh apples, cider,  hog and horse food.     At one time people ate all food from the land and fruit juice was real juice.    But a look at the store shelves now and what do I see?    Most beverage and fruit juices run form zero food to maybe 15% food in them.     That tells me that flavored water has replaced much of what used to be consumed as good food.  So the food being grown has not kept up with population growth at all.     Like was said when more visitors showed up  "add some water to the soup"      What is being produced is watered down and flavored up to make it go around.  And we depend on a fragile system of transportation to get it to us.  An oil based economy may well lead to mass starvation at some point,  and it could come on real fast.  Since people do not have much food in their houses, depend on the grocery stores and restaurants on a daily basis.   I've heard that in general there's about 3 days worth of food available if the trucks suddenly stopped running.   

  I don't like the situation.  So I intend to do something about it, at least locally for myself and a few neighbors.       Also the major benefits I've heard about by consuming all raw vegan diet are so good,  it makes me want that as well.   The very long life potential, extreme physical endurance possible.   The country of Mongolia is all flesh food oriented.  But what is the average life expectancy?  67 years, compared to 75 for the chinese who eat a lot more plant foods.   Highest in the world is the Japanese island of Monaco with average of almost 90 years.     "The islanders have a typical Mediterranean diet based on olive oil, tomatoes, peppers, fish and goat's cheese. The local wine comes from the cannonau grape which has a particularly high level of anti-oxidants."    But on 100% raw I've heard of 150 up to over 250 possible.    Although the very few examples of it do not have sufficient documented proof of birth date to satisfy modern science,  but it's sufficient for me to learn from.   That there is something to that original diet recorded in Genesis that is what our body system was designed to live on. 

[Greenbare Woods]

We are a species that evolved as meat eaters.  Over two million years of eating cooked meat as our primary food we have lost much of the size and strength of our mouth and jaws.  We have lost about 25% of our digestion system as a percentage of body mass.  We are no longer creatures adapted to eat a vegan diet.  A high percentage of the vegetables will pass through and not be absorbed.  Our close relatives, chimps, spend about 8 hours per day chewing plant food, and carry much larger guts around. 

What we have rather than large digestion systems is a much larger brain that takes a very significant supply of nutrition.  Most of us are smart enough to eat a diet that supports our evolutionary adaptations, a diet similar to what our human ancestors ate for millions of years. 

I do come from an area where apples are the most plentiful corp.  But I'm not going to survive eating the coarse grasses that my rancher neighbors convert into meat for me to cook.  Its really not a trade off. 

[John P]

...Highest in the world is the Japanese island of Monaco with average of almost 90 years.     "The islanders have a typical Mediterranean diet based on olive oil, tomatoes, peppers, fish and goat's cheese. The local wine comes from the cannonau grape which has a particularly high level of anti-oxidants." 

That story about Monaco being in Japan makes me think of an old advertisement for whisky there: "Real Scotch whisky, made from genuine Scottish grapes".

[eyesup]

Yet more preaching to the choir here, but at least the trend towards more nudity is being presented to the college age group.
A confidence builder.
They aren’t hearing it from the previous generation as an option but as a self-help kind of practice for their own generation.

Duane

[Davie]

I have a set of teeth designed for eating meat. I'm not and couldn't be a vegetarian or vegan although I do respect their views and admire them for sticking to their beliefs. (I hope that doesn't sound patronising)

I once listened to a man suggesting at we should concentrate on eating the fatty bits of meat. He banged on for a while and after a while a man put his hand up and quietly asked if his eating theories had been peer reviewed? The speaker rocked on his feet and spluttered some excuse and the talk ended. Now whether or not his theory is right or wrong he had no evidence to support it.

I believe in a balanced diet. We do need fruit and vegetables and carborhydrates , one reason we are called limies is because our sailors ate limes to prevent scurvy.

I do like the idea of Scottish grapes in whisky, good job I'm not Scots - but I do love their malts, part of a balanced diet?

Davie 

[Peter S]

Whisky (or whiskey) is a vegetable derivative, therefore counts as one of your five-a-day. Same can be said for BEER and wine. Oh, the joys of a healthy diet!

peter

[jbeegoode]

The Article in Question:
I finally saw that there is an article on confidence that jumped us from least November's diet discussion. "Start sleeping topless" and then try nudity, sounds goofy to me. Most of the dangers are to the lower part of the body. It is hidden in the sheets, and just a shirt will ride up in the night anyway. Nice to know that someone is d trying and we are now producing articles for people with greater hang ups that need a step by step hand holding to merely try getting naked. Hard to believe that their are people with such issues as to have difficulty getting into bed simply naked. Our society produces a very unhealthy situation, emotionally, and physically.

On chewing meat:
We also have lesser canine teeth. Our mouths work well preparing both meat and vegetation. We are designed to eat both. It doesn't follow that we have always eaten primarily meat. The rest of our systems overwhelmingly point out that we better digest and live healthier when eating more plant base foods. Meat has been a supplement, something to eat when there is less plant life, a treat, or delicacy. Some cultures have certainly eaten more meat regularly than others through human history; we have a choice in the diversity. The plant based diet is proven to be much more successful.

We are better adapted to survive with more choices. When the plants run out, head to the animals. When the animals run out, eat some plants. When we began to populate, we found domestication of meat and other animal uses. We found farming. When the hunt doesn't provide, we have found another source, carefully taken care of. Now, we have created another kind of calamity, by placing over processed and weirdly processed meat at the top of the list. Most of the meat that is eaten isn't meat, or real meat is hardly like it. It is a lot of crap, and mostly muscle and fat. It is filled with antibiotics and unhealthy hormones and disease potentials, ulcers, to the point that medium rare is no longer safe to eat. The nutrition has to be cooked out of it. One can get more protein out of plants, even green ones, than the BS factory farmed meat. I have nothing against wild meat in moderation. I refuse to eat the factory farmed crap, because it is unhealthy and generally worthless and a strain on my body to digest. It is an over indulgence to eat so much of it. It is like all of the processed food that people eat instead of fresh vegetables.

I sat in the supermarket the other day watching the people. 44 were obviously unhealthy, hobbling, overweight, in time they will be sick. Their carts were full of processed food and crappy meat. 11, six of which were children, looked healthy. Wanna guess what I saw in their shopping carts? It is sooo obvious!

Now, we have taken meat consumption to a new crisis. It is having dramatic effects on the health of our planet and stealing the resources that we need to survive. It is time to face fact. We can't sustain unreasonable consumption of meat anymore. It is irresponsible. The world and its people are being poisoned by a profit driven greed and its lies, like the old tobacco industry analogy.
Jbee

[ric]

most of the long term vegetarians i know have health problems,  in old age theyre skinny with no body reserves to call on in time of need ... half starved if you like.

my other half was a veggy when we met , i tried it for a while, for health reasons  were now omnivores again .

broadly speaking vegetarians in the uk fall into 2 catorgaries,  the furry animal brigade who think exploiting animals is wrong and the health freaks who think that meat is unhealthy ,  the majority  in the uk just cut meat products out of their junk food diets and dont have enough knowledge to eat a good long term veggy diet.

healthy vegetarians eating a good healthy diet are rare.

it appears that  our uk /european meat industry is less factory based than that in the us.  most of our beef and lamb has a grass based diet and gets to frolic in the fields for 3/4 of the year. 
pork and chicken are more intensivly farmed in sheds and fed grain based diets.

we eat mainly beef and lamb with some pork but only occasional chicken.  we rarely eat processed meat products,  not even bacon...id rather have a pork chop for breakfast.

perhaps my views are coloured by my upbringing in rural somerset , i grew up with beef cattle outside the bedroom window , and worked for some years in the dairy industry, its 20 odd years since i last worked with/owned cattle but some things are ingrained.

[eyesup]

Correct. Balanced means, well, balanced. A little of this and that in appropriate amounts.
Recently I decided I wasn’t feeling my best and have begun modifying my diet. I eat exactly the same stuff, just less of it on fewer occasions. I’ve lost 10 lbs. That’s my idea of going on a diet.

I have believed for years that BEER is it’s own food group, and is a long neglected stone in the food pyramid.

Oh, the joys of a healthy diet!

BEER and wine are good for the digestion. Good for the constitution!

Whisky (or whiskey) is a vegetable derivative, therefore counts as one of your five-a-day.

Reminds me of the old Bill Cosby routine where he defends giving the kids cake for breakfast after his wife jumped all over him for it:
There’s   flour, eggs, milk, butter and sugar; pretty much everything you would get at breakfast. Right?
Without all the work. Right? 

Duane

[JOhnGw]

As I understand it we have a set of teeth capable of coping with a wide range of carnivorous and vegetarian foods but an inadequate digestive system for a totally carnivorous or vegetarian diet and unsuitable for a lifetime diet of uncooked food.
I believe that part of our success as a species is down to the fact that we pre-digest much of our food by cooking, thus allowing ourselves to both use a far wider range of foods and requiring a far smaller portion of our body to be used for digrstive processes than many other species.

I will continue to eat a wide range of carnivorous and vegetarian foods but avoiding as far as one can in this modern world the heavily processes stuff using modern industrial methods.

[Peter S]

After years of TV programmes and magazine articles on the subject of diet and health, the one overriding factor that shines through, no matter what line is being put forward, is that fresh is good, processed is bad. Get your meat or veg in its raw state and prepare it yourself it'll generally speaking be good for you. Get the stuff that's been machined and has a long list of chemicals on the packet, and you're ingesting the problem - even washing it down with BEER doesn't help ...

Peter

[jbeegoode]

The places where people live the longest are filled with vegetarians. They don't get most of the diseases that western diet (ie too much meat) people get, in the first place. The diabetes, the cancers, the heart problems don't happen to them. Studies done on tens of thousands prove this. Read Campbell's "The China Study." They tend to not get the diseases that would require more fat on the bodies in the first place. Inactivity makes old folks skinny, unless it is coupled with a diet that makes them obese. What kind of vegetarian diet is a factor. Many people just stop eating meat and eat crappy and then call themselves vegetarians. It probably is those skinny people that you have seen veggie diet not working for. It is a fact that good veggie diets will make a body more lean. That isn't such a bad thing in all ways.

Raw diet works just fine. It digests well and the nutrition is much much better than having it cooked out of the food. Very few foods are a problem raw. You don't have to eat as much to satisfy the body, which makes digestion better. You can taste the difference. The good fresh taste is nutrition. Instead of cooking, one might grind the food up, juice it, let the body take a break some of the day. I have smoothies each morning after not eating all night. It gives the body some time. Most people overcook food. Fresh live living food works very well for a body. Somebody gets broccoli farts at a potluck and doesn't chew his carrots and thinks that fresh whole food is all too hard to handle. You have to grind up wheat to make bread, so why wouldn't one need to grind up a handful of almonds, or any nuts?

I used to be adamantly opposed to a veggie diet, but it has changed my health 180 degrees to positives, so my mind is open. I eat raw living food, I check my sources. I eat raw eggs and fish. I don't eat chicken sushi. It is too difficult to maintain this diet strictly in this rigged world, so I only shoot for 80%, then I eat some poor food for fun. For example, I have pizza each week.

I used to have BEER at the top of my pyramid, but after a couple of decades, it began to stop working out for me. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but results will vary.

These two weeks, I'm taking care of a friend who is 90 years old, who has been eating what he pleases all along. There are exceptions, but the reason that he needs my help is his BEER at the top of the pyramid. It caught up with him a few years back. It is still messing things up, destroying his quality of life. He says he still doesn't want to be anymore than 95 anyway. Seems that he believes that he has won the battle. I still believe that washing down crappy food with BEER does help, it doesn't do the trick, but it does help. I mean...why wouldn't it at least help?

AND another thing! I have observed that digestion is hindered r dramatically by belts and tight clothing. If you want to live well and long, digest your good food well. EAT NAKED!
Jbee