Author Topic: Nudes in the news  (Read 131314 times)

Bob Knows

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #195 on: December 18, 2015, 05:52:01 PM »
Without wanting to cause offence - each (country) unto its own.

It is however interesting to compare the US experience with that of Australia. They had masses of firearms, although clearly nothing like the number in the US but after a mass shooting the law was changed and the result was firearms offences and suicides dropped dramatically. See here.   
Davie  8)


The murder rate in the US is somewhere in the middle compared to other nations.  Some nations have murder rates many times higher, and others lower. 

The US is not a monolithic place though.  Chicago where guns are banned almost entirely has a murder rate at least 10 times as high as Houston where guns are encouraged and common.  Both cities are about the same size and have the same racial demographics.  Some large parts of the US have murder rates comparable to the lower rate parts of Europe, and some places like Chicago are much worse. 

Overall the murder rate in the US has dropped as gun ownership has expanded, and is now the lowest since the US government began collecting statistics fifty years ago.  The US rate of 3.8 per 100,000 people is less than that of the world wide average rate which is around 6 something per 100,000 people. 

For international murder rate comparison see   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate



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jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #196 on: December 18, 2015, 06:54:54 PM »
Without wanting to cause offence - each (country) unto its own.

It is however interesting to compare the US experience with that of Australia. They had masses of firearms, although clearly nothing like the number in the US but after a mass shooting the law was changed and the result was firearms offences and suicides dropped dramatically. See here.   I walk the streets of the UK without the general fear that my neighbour might loose off a firearm (or their children will.) Even with strict gun control we have problems but nothing like the US. I have to say that I've never felt threatened whilst being in the US apart from when one giant of a man who looked extremly rough came towards us. He stepped off the pavement raised his hat to my wife and said, "Evening mam," proving you can't judge people by their looks. (Another lesson learned)

Davie  8)
I find it amazing the results of Australia’s controls. Only 40% of the suicides and homicides are now done by using a firearm. Have suicides and homicides decreased over all? Have grotesque results increased because of a less effective way of suicide being readily available? What about homicides given the same line of inquiry? Home invasions did not increase, nor did they decrease, but now the home occupants had no recourse, but to be peaceful victims, or little old ladies standing in a corner with a kitchen knife in hand? I have wrestled with larger more powerful friends for fun. I remember how completely helpless that I was a couple of times, being pinned or tossed. The statistics need to be looked at more closely. What is the true impact?

Most people advocating have lived in areas where there is peace and have had relatively close to no violence in their lives, stable places. Most are not different, like minorities, or a social difference like odd religion, or gay, or of anti-war or some other opinion, or dress. I have seen many shocking examples of these people being beaten, tortured, humiliated or traumatized, because they had no defense…victims happen.  Mentioned that I have not needed a gun for many years, but in my youth, there were several times that it could have been handy in my defense and I had no gun. The last time I felt threatened was a larger younger textile thinking that he had a right to take away our free beach. We had to leave for another place. Upon return, his inebriated girlfriend shouted, “You guys a soo cool” and removed her top. He was too busy with her to hassle us about our nudity. This just an example, there will always be someone popping up when you least expect it, ready to push people around when there are no guns.

A few decades ago, while driving on a remote interstate highway in California, where two years before a nutjob had been driving up and shooting people at random two years before, I was stopped for speeding. That was when I discovered that it was illegal to have a firearm in my car for protection, there. That’s when I became a life member of NRA.

But there is more to the issue than what a gun control advocates are framing it to be. When I traveled in South America, I was among populations where people had no guns. As I sat eating a hamburger in a restaurant, a group of students came by in protest of the flying of planes over their classrooms and disrupting college. The military police walked up and shot into the crowd. I watched young people fall. This in the main plaza, on Peru’s Independence Day. That evening there were people celebrating patriotic Independence just as loud, in that same plaza, and there was nothing in the newspapers.

In Bogata, the public bus fares had been upped by approximately 4 to 6 cents and people were walking the streets in protest, because they were that hardworking poor. I was picked out of a crowd on my way to a movie, slammed up against a wall and held a gunpoint like a firing squad, searched, and left vulnerable to any gun play that the police were supposedly attempting to suppress, as others walked by. The oppressive government and its monopoly squeezing the people, needed to take away the guns.

These are two examples of unarmed citizenry. History has proven continuously that there is no limit to the oppression of those who gain power, unless there is popular control and too many pitchforks for the Knights to handle. I know that this country has slipped continuously and dramatically toward a situation like those South American CIA/corporate/oligarchy controlled countries that I visited back then and we are never that far from the same without the Bill of Rights in true force. These are the issues of gun control. A well-armed citizenry, too many guns in the hands of too many people is a necessity. If we look at histories statistics, fascism, oligarchy, in numerous forms are inevitable, unless the government is truly by the people, of and for the people. These shooting tragedies will continue, but the odds of getting harmed by a gun are very small. With government control of guns, the odds that oppressive government will take over are 100%. You don’t have to use guns, you just have to have them.

Hitler took away the free body movement. He put guns in the hands of only those that fit the mold, of friendly groups. Dictators stand as strong controlled personalities and like to stand as the representatives of controlling religions, as often as they make ideology like religion.

 This is a political rant, but body freedom depends on its political aspects, too. Guns actually free society. Free to do things like be naked.
So, well, yea, I’m a cowboy, wild on the free range and I’ve been roaming around.
Jbee
   
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jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #197 on: December 18, 2015, 07:08:45 PM »
Without wanting to cause offence - each (country) unto its own.

It is however interesting to compare the US experience with that of Australia. They had masses of firearms, although clearly nothing like the number in the US but after a mass shooting the law was changed and the result was firearms offences and suicides dropped dramatically. See here.   
Davie  8)

The murder rate in the US is somewhere in the middle compared to other nations.  Some nations have murder rates many times higher, and others lower. Overall the murder rate in the US has dropped as gun ownership has expanded, and is now the lowest since the US government began collecting statistics fifty years ago.  The US rate of 3.8 per 100,000 people is less than that of the world wide average rate which is around 6 something per 100,000 people. 

Around here, the murder rate increased when the gangster fad became more pronounced and gang violence became more of an aspect of the smuggling and drug world. It had nothing to do with most people, it was among a few, in just a few particular parts of town.
As that culture has decreased in the hip hop media, murder rates are back down. Murder rates are down all over the country. Culture is a big aspect of gun violence, again I recommend education.

It is true that the best defense and effective murder weapon is a gun.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 07:29:06 PM by jbeegoode »
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jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #198 on: December 18, 2015, 07:22:46 PM »
Just when I've been able to digest Jbee and Bob's posts good old Steve shows up again. A question I have is why do I never hear of the person who complains ever testifying in court? It seems to me that it is always the prosecution repeating the words of the arresting officers. Or did the officers just see him and decided to take him in without a complaint? Or did I miss something?

Do defendants have the right to meet their accusers in court in Europe? It used to be English common law. Would someone clarify?


Then there are those mental health issues. People get lost in the shuffle, well meaning laws get in the way of treatment and the whole thing is a disaster. I remember one from my EMS days. One winter a man was running naked in the woods. The local sheriff deputies called for an ambulance to assist. When we arrived and were advised of the situation a deputy asked me when we were going to "go after the guy?'. I responded "When he gets cold enough he'll come back".
Once the deputies left he did return and it was not a mental case but a little too much to drink. It's a fine line to walk and not cross!
;D
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Davie

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #199 on: December 18, 2015, 07:31:28 PM »
In English law an accused person has the right to cross examine witnesses, although with some trials the witness may be behind a screen or via a video link. The defence have a duty to disclose the evidence against an accused. What happens in the rest of Europe is to me an unknown. I believe that Scots law (separate from English) has similar safeguards plus an extra verdict of "not proven" which I guess means, we think you did it but can't actually prove it. Is this a good idea - discuss!

Davie  8)

jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #200 on: December 19, 2015, 08:02:42 AM »
Not proven! That's something new to me. Here it is innocent until proven guilty, beyond a doubt, the state has the burden of proof. That sounds very alien to me.

When I was a kid in France, I was accused of something that I had no knowledge of. I was questioned by CID the US military law and a gendarme. The gendarme accused me and treated me as if I was guilty and I had to prove myself innocent. The CID finally stepped in and told him to back off of the kid (I was only about 13). He wouldn't put up with that violation of rights. I learned the difference between innocent until proven guilty and guilty until proven innocent that day in a big way. It made me appreciate my country's law, and I took more interest in the Bill of Rights. Right to meet an accuser falls in with this. This persecution turns my stomach as a naturist, but an unfair justice system even more. Take the judge out and hang 'em.
Jbee
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Davie

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #201 on: December 19, 2015, 12:13:20 PM »
Quote
Not proven! That's something new to me. Here it is innocent until proven guilty, beyond a doubt, the state has the burden of proof.

Its the same in the UK, English and Scots law. The "Not proven" is a verdict after trial. See here for more details.

i.e. guilty, not guilty and the not proven What is creeping in is the use of civil law for what I think are criminal issues. One example is lorry drivers found to have illegal immigrants being dealt with were the standard of proof is "on the balance of probabilities" not "beyond reasonable doubt"

Davie  8)

JOhnGw

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #202 on: December 19, 2015, 02:35:58 PM »
Continental Europe uses the inquisitorial system of justice and not the adversarial system used in most Anclophone countries.
This is associated with a completely different attitude throughout the process, not just in court.
JOhn

Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same.
George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionaries

John P

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #203 on: December 19, 2015, 05:11:19 PM »
Regarding Steve Gough, I was just able to say on his support group on Facebook:
In Scotland the Naked Rambler was "Causing alarm to the lieges", whereas in that Belgian case I posted about a couple of days ago, naked ramblers were "Causing alarm to Liége".

nudewalker

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #204 on: December 19, 2015, 06:15:45 PM »
I thought of Steven last night. The recollection that just a few days ago (Wednesday to be exact) it was nice enough to wander naked in a local park while last night a snow squall quickly coated everything in white! As fast as it developed and the fact that we are at elevation a step or two outside revealed a stinging cold aided by the wind. Road surfaces quickly froze which resulted in overpasses becoming dangerous. My thoughts turned to what would Steven do confronted with such a sudden change in weather.

There is a vague recollection of a Civics class where we discussed the different types of justice systems and the conclusion that the French system of trying to prove one's innocence would be the most difficult. All those memories of things long ago. Keep up the good work as the postings trigger brain function that may ward off dementia! Or maybe I'd just be seen as a silly old man who forgot his clothes again!
"Always do what you are afraid to do"-Emerson

nuduke

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #205 on: December 19, 2015, 06:38:13 PM »
John P, nice pun.  Good thinking! Keep it up!

John

jbeegoode

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #206 on: December 20, 2015, 06:27:29 PM »
Steven would take shelter in a pub and have a warm tea if caught out. He has been known to dress to the weather, especially around the campsite.

The other night at the sweat benefit, the outdoor affair was being threatened by a chilly storm and some sprinkles. I wore only a terry robe for convenience, but my car key had fallen out somewhere. I spent most of an hour searching, wondering where I might sleep that night. DF was baking Christmas cookies an hour away with her daughter, my son was out carousing with friends and not answering, but I was among friends. The key had been found in the obvious place by a slightly dimwitted but likable friend and placed in an odd place. Throughout the cool night I would stop in the sweat, get my body heated and then participate freely until the cold became uncomfortable again. I didn't wear the robe until later in the evening. There is always a kind, compassionate soul, or a friend when someone is in need.
Jbee
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Davie

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #207 on: December 23, 2015, 10:15:09 AM »
Long article in today's Times by Danny Finklestien. He supports the idea of nudity but also supports the imprisonment of Steve Gough on the basis of disobeying court orders seeing the rule of the courts as important. He seems to have missed the point that simple nudity is not illegal and the court makes orders that make it illegal for SG to be naked in the same places as it is legal for others can be, e.g. Studland Beach. You can read the article here

Davie  8)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 12:29:28 PM by Davie »

Bob Knows

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #208 on: December 23, 2015, 02:02:41 PM »


Quote
he can’t be allowed to make up his rules and choose to ignore ours....


Like most reporters Mr. Danny Finklestien views himself as an advocate of freedom but he actually supports government control of our lives.  Its OK to be free as long as you kiss their robes and obey like good little sheep.

Steve didn't violate their "rules."   Being naked is legal.   Its the black robes who make up rules in order to own and control people.   They are the ones who should not be allowed to make up rules. 

Mr. Finklestien is a jerk.   
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 02:07:43 PM by Bob Knows »
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Davie

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Re: Nudes in the news
« Reply #209 on: December 23, 2015, 05:01:29 PM »
My sincere apologies I googled the piece and it came up in full. I'm a subscriber and didn't realise I was still signed in. I'm reluctant to paste it in here for copyright reasons.

Davie  8)