Encounters...what to do?

[nudewalker]

Once again when I want to find something to add to my post I can't find it. So I'm sure Jbee, who seems to have lived during the "peace, love and rock n roll era" along with me will vouch for this. A meme posted on Facebook a few weeks ago mentioned the fact that those who didn't follow the hippy movement back in the day are now in charge. Without getting into too much detail all those regulations passed to protect the planet are now under attack as being bad for business. Corporate greed (don't even start the a conversation here about the epi-pen, too many family members have to rely on it) has taken over the economy. Organic foods, unless you buy them direct from a farmer are almost twice the price of factory grown. I could go on but I think you see the point.

Those in charge set the rules or at least try to make it seem that what they do is the right thing. I remember quite well those showers after PE, it was not only the expected but the norm. No one would go back to class smelling of locker room, sweat and physical exertion without being the brunt of jokes. When or why did this change? To me there is some deep rooted feeling from those in charge, perhaps from teasing in the locker room but with all the emphasis on math and sciences the arts, PE and the classes that made us well rounded people have gone by the wayside. So we eliminate art so no nudes are seen, music because it may influence our youth in a bad way and showers after PE because they may see each other naked.

I was in Wally World (Wal-Mart) only due to the time (after 10PM) and needs (light bulbs) or else I would not have patronized the corporate giant. Overheard were two mothers talking when one mentioned that her son needed body spray for after gym class. So instead of a shower hide the body odor with perfume? Have we regressed to the middle ages? I was so tempted to ask about showers but felt uncomfortable bringing the subject up with strangers.

My last few encounters although not completely positive at least were not negative. Most curiosity or indifference but no hostility. The 12 year olds mom would have a difficult time in a discussion about life. So another boy learns about sex on the streets, including odd birth control methods, and we end up with another teen pregnancy, because mommy is a prude and is appalled a man would actually walk around nude. Or maybe she's afraid he may turn gay? Ok, I'm ranting but for every step forward it seems there is a step and a half back.

At this age I am eligible for the Silver Sneakers program at our local exercise center. It's is a free membership provided by my healthcare company so I plan on using it this winter to stay in hiking/kayak shape for next season. On my tour I discovered that the shower room floor was hardly wet and the steam room was used by men in bathing suits! I guess I'm really going to upset the status quo when the weather gets cold! 

[Peter S]

I was one of those for whom school games and gym sessions were followed by communal showers (often involving competition for the shower head that had water coming out of it!!).

Try this for size: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/fashion/mens-style/mens-locker-room-designers-take-pity-on-naked-millennials.html?_r=0

Or this: http://www.newnownext.com/why-its-okay-that-i-dont-like-to-be-naked-in-the-locker-room/12/2015/

Perhaps summed up here: http://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences2/locker_room

peter

[Greenbare Woods]

I am the older generation that grew up swimming naked at the YMCA and sharing a large communal shower at the school gym.  I didn't know that gays existed in those years.  We were afraid of girls, but not worried about being seen by other boys or men.

The change away from lack of concern about same sex nudity began in the 1960s, about the same time that I found out about gays.  My college roommate complained about gays in the college drama department, and he had to explain to me what that was about. 

Children today are taught that gay is common and acceptable, beginning in the 1st grade in many places.  The other side of that message is that they cannot escape sexual pressure in a room full of boys.  I'm sure its not PC to talk about the gay pressure on children in a negative way, but I'm also sure it has been a large part of the "shyness" which has stopped boys from being comfortable naked around other boys. 

Peter, I read those links and I'm not convinced.  Somehow I doubt that a pussyboy from the NY Times knows anything about anything farther out of NY than 148th street. The gay guy from Logo has more of an understanding of the problem because he admits being part of it.

Bob

[jbeegoode]

Nudewalker: "So I'm sure Jbee, who seems to have lived during the "peace, love and rock n roll era" along with me will vouch for this."
Whah? Era? I didn't know that it ever ended. You've probably just been hanging around with the wrong crowd.
I know what you mean. I lost my roots, tried different directions and trails and have now returned to my roots. Life is about change, but not throwing out the good stuff, or losing wisdom along the way.

Bob wrote, "the pussyboy from the NY Times."
We both had to laugh about that, really hard. You certainly  showed  a knack for throwing out the PC in a large way.  That picture certainly does reek of "I'm gay, I'm a geek and I'm very happy about it" as the author intended. He might take pussyboy from the NY Times as a badge of honor.

I taught school and also spent a couple of years sub-teaching (early 2000's), often as the P.E. coach. None of the kids showered. They wouldn't risk vulnerability, or ridicule, or want to feel like the only one. In my high school years, we were required to shower as has been mentioned. The locker room unsupervised was sometimes torture with the older kids around. Towel snaps, rat tails, comments, kids still slow to develop public hair, pranks. I didn't see that when teaching. Well, then slowbie's would shoot up along with their confidence.

The reason most common to no longer require a shower is it has been looked on as akin to rape. Forcing children to disrobe is considered as a rape and the potential law suit, or outraged parents enforce that. A teacher wouldn't want to be looked upon as getting a kick out of the lesson. Most of the kids didn't smell TOO bad. BUT a few...
Jbee

[Greenbare Woods]

Bob wrote, "the pussyboy from the NY Times."
We both had to laugh about that, really hard. You certainly  showed  a knack for throwing out the PC in a large way.  That picture certainly does reek of "I'm gay, I'm a geek and I'm very happy about it" as the author intended. He might take pussyboy from the NY Times as a badge of honor.

Yea, I don't do PC.  And yea, the NY pussyboys and their culture are a big part of the problem, not the solution to the problem.

The reason most common to no longer require a shower is it has been looked on as akin to rape. Forcing children to disrobe is considered as a rape and the potential law suit, or outraged parents enforce that.  Jbee

Back before homosexuality was being promoted by schools, the phrase "don't drop the soap" was a joke in the gym locker room.   Our NY Times pussyboy puts it in the illustration at the top of his article.   One doesn't even have to read to know where his mind is.

Parents now worry that a boy dropping the soap won't be "akin to" rape.   Boys today need more protection in the boys locker room than they would need in the girl's locker room.   And many parents are also concerned about dykes in the girl's locker room as well.

Bob

[nudewalker]

Nudewalker: "So I'm sure Jbee, who seems to have lived during the "peace, love and rock n roll era" along with me will vouch for this."
Whah? Era? I didn't know that it ever ended. You've probably just been hanging around with the wrong crowd.
I know what you mean. I lost my roots, tried different directions and trails and have now returned to my roots. Life is about change, but not throwing out the good stuff, or losing wisdom along the way.

Yes Jbee, I was hanging out with the wrong crowd; mainly a wife that had no understanding of what life could be so I lost 10 or so years. As the t-shirts suggest "Life is Good " despite the aches and pains that come with age.


Yea, I don't do PC.  And yea, the NY pussyboys and their culture are a big part of the problem, not the solution to the problem.-Bob.

 And there in lies the rub, we try so hard to be PC but fail in common sense. I was much like you in college, knew of gays but never seen, met or was approached by one. In fact, despite twelve years of Catholic school, many spent as an alter boy, I was never approached. A brother in law of mine once lamented, "Am I that ugly that no one ever approached me?". It's much like nudity with parents; if they don't see it then we don't have to explain it and it will go away. Just like sex education, the parents don't want schools doing it but what kind of job are they doing? And as our schools continue to have shackles and handcuffs placed on them by parents threatening lawsuits how can there ever be a common ground.  As Jbee mentioned in his answer to my post; "not throwing out the good stuff or losing wisdom along the way."!

[eyesup]

Hopefully the recent efforts to promote public body acceptance will bring innocence back to the young minds.

Recent efforts? In your area? Of what nature?

I am going to assume you are referring groups like Topfree Equal Rights Assoc., GoTopless and other ad hoc groups that push for rescinding laws that allow men to wander about without shirts and punish women that do. Are there any other initiatives that operate at the local level?

Hopefully reasoned and practical efforts to present this idea as an outright double standard would go farther than an in your face condemnation of “old puritan ideology” from an activist point of view. If you wish to remain bogged down in a comfortable tradition, so be it. It doesn’t mean you get to chain everyone down with you.

The GoTopless event of GoTopless Day just occurred last Sunday. On Hampton Beach, Venice Beach and more than 30 cities in the US, women, and men, went peacefully topless. Hopefully no one was screaming or ranting about what should be a normal activity.

This woman in New Hampshire has the right approach. I have mentioned this site before and I check it every now and then. Her attitude seems to be I want to go hiking, walking, bike riding et al, oh and by the way I enjoy doing these things without a shirt on. OK!

A fresh breeze of simple plain common sense and honesty. Quite the contrast to the neurotic articles from the NYC press.

Duane

[eyesup]

All I can say after reading those is, I can’t help but get an overwhelming sense of people yearning to be a victim or at least special in some way. As my mother-in-law would say, “Oh! Poor baby!” I realize it is second nature to most of us but we really need to stop seeing the universe as revolving around us.

People are have a crises from not "enjoying" their visit to the locker room? A locker room is a locker room, not a social scene! I guess, only in big cities do folks invent things to get upset about.

The locker room unsupervised was sometimes torture with the older kids around. . . . then slowbie's would shoot up along with their confidence.

Any gardener or arborist will tell you that you cannot stake out a plant forever. At some point you pull the stakes out and let the tree stand in the wind. This is what strengthens the tree. It has to stand on it’s own.

An orthopedist will tell you the same thing. You have to exercise the body to build strong bones. Stress produces an ability to withstand stress.

The same goes for the psyche and self esteem. Protected forever these will be overwhelmed. Properly taught tools on how to deal with adversity only do good.

Duane

[jbeegoode]

The locker room unsupervised was sometimes torture with the older kids around. . . . then slowbie's would shoot up along with their confidence.

Any gardener or arborist will tell you that you cannot stake out a plant forever. At some point you pull the stakes out and let the tree stand in the wind. This is what strengthens the tree. It has to stand on it’s own.

An orthopedist will tell you the same thing. You have to exercise the body to build strong bones. Stress produces an ability to withstand stress.

The same goes for the psyche and self esteem. Protected forever these will be overwhelmed. Properly taught tools on how to deal with adversity only do good.

Duane

The tree usually outgrows the stake quite naturally, it absorbs or knocks it over, but sometimes a gale comes by and rips it out like an umbrella. You get a bent tree, a dead tree, sometimes you can place it back as long as the roots are strong. And then there is the art of trimming, pruning.

I really like the metaphor, but well, you know what I mean. You did Boy Scouts.

Incidentally, I sent PM's to you and Ken.
Jbee

[eyesup]

Yes, protecting a child forever does more damage than good.

Bailing them out of trouble has the same effect. It doesn't mean I love them any less. In fact it's more.

Duane

[Davie]

Children have to fail from time to time and they have to take risks. The skill with risk is for the child to perceive the activity is more risky than it is.

Davie 

[jbeegoode]

This last week has been kinda weird, kinda different.

For one, DF's brother was in town and we took him on several hikes...WITH Clothes on!!!
I hadn't been hiking with clothes on in years. It was weird. I definitely turned to DF and told her how much better it would be to not be sweating under the clothing going up Miller Canyon in the Huachuca Mtns. We saw no one, nada. It was however handy where the scratchy vegetation began to cover over the trail and then shorts didn't seen enough with the holly-like leaves on the bushes. We may need coverings for a few stretches up there when we naked backpack more extensively.

Then there were the climbs up Mt. Bigalow and Kellogg, where the windchill at 9000 plus feet was cutting through us. Later I put on a windbreaker over a t-shirt to handle a well shaded other trail. I was reminded that nude hiking is affected by seasons and elevation and this was the alternative. The others were commenting on the cold. I also might have had a different experience, if I had started nude.

One day, as I sat in my living room writing, I heard voices through the open window. Soon, here was Bailey peaking in, her nose to screen, "Are ya home?" She stopped by with my neighbor, whom she was visiting. "Do I need to find some pants?" "Not for me." "I don't care." So, I received my guests in the realm of a more perfect world. They stuck around about an hour, but you know, every so often, I would feel uncomfortable being the only nude in the room. When one was curious about an exercise machine on the floor, I might have explained it better by demonstrating, but the position would have made me feel exposed. When they both sat on either side of me on the couch so as to see something on the computer, I put the remote keyboard over my crotch to feel more comfortable.
A couple of weeks before, I had an uncomfortable sense for a few moments, after working nude aside a woman friend for several hours, we came in to have a late lunch and she got dressed. For a moment, in the middle of lunch, getting up to get something for us in the kitchen, I felt naked, even though she showed no reaction that anything was in disarray.

Apparently, I still have hangups surfacing, when I'm the only one nude. I may not be the person who would stay comfortable in the more perfect clothing optional world without other nudes around.
Oh well,
Jbee

[totaltanjim]

I am new to this site but not to being a nudist/naturist.
The topic is encountering textiles while being nude out in public.
This has happened to me many times while out hiking as well as a couple of times at work, a few times while getting the paper in the morning, not to mention the thousands who have seen me while riding in seven Los Angeles WNBR events.

This particular encounter occurred about two years ago in an area I have been hiking for more than 15 years. It is not known as a clothing optional area but with using common sense you can hike cloths free without a problem.
When I arrived at the trail head there was already another car parked there, so I knew there was someone on the trail. That meant starting my hike in shorts. About 10 minuets into my hike, I passed the woman walking her dogs heading back to her car. We exchanged greetings and as soon as she was out of site off came the shorts. After about another 10 minuets, I received a call from one of my nieces. I stopped to talk to her (she is autistic so I do not like to rush a call from her), I was standing there looking out over the lake and down the trail when I became aware of someone behind me.

I know, at this point you are thinking I should have been watching back up the trail, but since vehicles can not access the area due to a locked gate, I knew there was no way anyone could get to my location in the time I was stopped.

Well it turned out there were actually three people standing there outside of there vehicle with rather amused expressions on there face as I became aware of there presence. The vehicle was a Los Angeles County Sheriffs SUV with two male and one female deputies. I did put on my shorts before walking over to them. (I decision in hind site I regret.)

Well to not make this long story any longer it turns out they had talked to the woman with the dogs and she told them there was another person up ahead, but since I had my shorts on at the time naturally she never said anything about a nude hiker so they knew I had covered up. They were there checking out a report of people illegally camping in the area. They did question why I was nude, but at no time said anything that made me feel uncomfortable or worried.
Regardless how others may want to interpret this encounter, for me it was a very positive experience.

[eyesup]

What is the law in California regarding nudity in wilderness areas? We know it ok in National Parks as long as you cover up if someone asks.

Duane

[totaltanjim]

Where I was hiking is located in the Angeles National Forest. You are correct in that the laws for hiking in National Forest/Park lands is cover if asked, however if local law prohibits nudity, that is what will be applied on Federal lands.

In the case of Los Angels County, several years ago the then Sheriff wrote a letter in response to an inquiry about nude hiking that basically said the same thing, in that as long as you cover when asked, it was OK. 

The problem of course is since there is no actual law nor court case setting precedence, you can never be sure how a particular deputy may respond to the situation.